brigid by the lake: Lady Fingers: With the math. Please show your work, Rep. Kern.
I think she's more of a 'literature' type gal. She seems to like to quote the Founding Fathers, only it's one sentence, out of context, from an entire speech.
brigid
I guess the ACLU agreed with me!
brigid
http://www.newsok.com/article/3382452
ACLU response to the Oklahoma citizen's proclamation for morality
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Buzz up!
Editor's note: The ACLU of Oklahoma has issued the following response to the proclamation. Their responses to individual portions of the proclamation are in bold.
We the People of Oklahoma, Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in
order to secure and perpetuate the blessing of Liberty; to secure just
and rightful Government; to promote our mutual Welfare and Happiness,
do establish this proclamation and call upon the people of the great
State of Oklahoma, and our fellow Patriots in these United States of America who look to the Lord for guidance, to acknowledge the need for a national awakening of righteousness in our land.
WHEREAS, “It is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand” (John Adams); and
ACLU: The complete quote is “Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and
speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone, which can
establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The
only foundation of a free Constitution is pure virtue, and if this
cannot be inspired into our People in a greater Measure than they have
it now, they may change their rulers and the forms of government, but
they will not obtain a lasting liberty.”
John Adams was not a framer of the Constitution and this quote does
not relate to the federal or state government and whether the
government should influence religion.
WHEREAS, “We have no government armed with power capable of contending
with human passions unbridled by Religion and Morality” (John Adams);
and
ACLU: The complete quote is “We have no government armed with power
capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and
religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the
strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our
Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is
wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
John Adams was speaking to the officers of the first brigade of the
3rd division of the militia of Massachusetts October 11, 1798. Again,
this quote does not relate to whether government should be influenced
by religion. This quote is taking out of context to enhance a view
point[1]
It is also important to know that as President, Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states: As the Government of the United States of America
is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in
itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or
tranquility, of Musslumen; and, as the said States never entered into
any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is
declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious
opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing
between the two countries.
WHEREAS, “Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people” (John Adams); and
WHEREAS, “We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not
upon the power of government…but upon the capacity of mankind for
self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern
ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the
Ten Commandments of God” (James Madison); and
ACLU: This quote has caused a lot of controversy. “It was first introduced in David Barton’s
The Myth of Separation in 1989. However, Madison enthusiasts and the
editors of the Papers of James Madison have stated that they have not
found anything in their files to suggest Madison said these words. The
author David Barton has agreed that this quote is unconfirmed.”[2]
Madison objected to state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the
exemption of churches from taxation. He wrote: "Religion and government
will both exist in greater purity; the less they are mixed together."
WHEREAS, “Freedom is not a gift bestowed upon us by other men, but a right that belongs to us by the laws of God (Benjamin Franklin); and
ACLU: This quote is incomplete and is intentionally misleading. The
complete quote is actually “Freedom is not a gift bestowed upon us by
other men, but a right that belongs to us by the laws of God and
nature."
WHEREAS, “God who gave us life gave us liberty and can the liberties of
a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis,
a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the
Gift of God” (Thomas Jefferson); and
ACLU: This quote is a combination of 2 quotes made at two different
times found on Jefferson’s Memorial. The first “But let them [members
of the parliament of Great Britain]
not think to exclude us from going to other markets to dispose of those
commodities which they cannot use, or to supply those wants which they
cannot supply. Still less let it be proposed that our properties within
our own territories shall be taxed or regulated by any power on earth
but our own. The God who gave us life gave us liberty at the same time;
the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them.” This quote
Jefferson is giving a summary A Summary View of the Rights of British
America.
The second part of the quote is taken from Jefferson’s notes on Virginia.
“For in a warm climate, no man will labour for himself who can make
another labour for him. This is so true, that of the proprietors of
slaves a very small proportion indeed are ever seen to labor. And can
the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their
only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these
liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but
with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God
is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever . . ."[3]
WHEREAS, “Whether any free government can be permanent, where the
public worship of God, and the support of Religion, constitute no part
of the policy or duty of the state” (Joseph Story); and
ACLU: The complete quote is “It yet remains a problem to be solved in
human affairs whether any free government can be permanent where the
public worship of God, and the support of religion, constitutes no part
of the policy or duty of the state in any assignable shape…“Thus, the
whole power over the subject of religion is left exclusively to the
state governments, to be acted upon according to their own sense of
justice, and the state constitutions; and the Catholic and the
Protestant, the Calvinist and the Arminian, the Jew and the Infidel,
may sit down at the common table of the national councils, without any
inquisition into their faith, or mode of worship.”
Story did support religion on the state level, but he rejected
federal power over religion. The end of the opinion where this quote is
taken ends with Story emphasizing justice and all faiths working
together.
WHEREAS, “We hold sacred the rights of conscience, and promise to the
people…the free and undisturbed exercise of their religion” (Roger Sherman); and
ACLU: This sentence is taken from a fairly complex declaration to Canada. Quebec became a British Colony in 1963. Catholics were the majority denomination in Canada, and the British Parliament
had approached Quebec with the opportunity to join. In the Quebec Act
of 1774, the British Parliament had guaranteed Quebec free exercise of
the Church of Rome.
The Continental Congress expressed concerned about the Catholics in
Quebec. Congress expressed astonishment that Parliament should ever
consent to establish in the country a religion. During the
Revolutionary War, Congress reversed its sentiment. Congress sent two
letters to Catholics in Quebec urging them to cede from Britain to join
the union. Congress guaranteed religion freedom.
WHEREAS, “This great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians” (Patrick Henry); and
ACLU: This questionable quote is not found in any of Henry’s works or utterances that were recorded.
WHEREAS, “When you…exercise the right of voting for public officers,
let it be impressed upon your mind that God commands you to choose just
men who will rule in the fear of God” (Noah Webster); and
ACLU: The complete quote is “When you become entitled to exercise the
right of voting for public officers, let it be impressed on your mind
that God commands you to choose for rulers, "just men who will rule in
the fear of God. The preservation of government depends on the faithful
discharge of this duty; if the citizens neglect their duty and place
unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted; laws
will be made, not for the public good so much as for selfish or local
purposes; corrupt or incompetent men will be appointed to execute the
laws; the public revenues will be squandered on unworthy men; and the
rights of the citizens will be violated or disregarded. If a republican
government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be
because the citizens neglect the divine commands, and elect bad men to
make and administer the laws.”[5]
All Oklahomans should be concerned that this quote is in such a
proclamation. We know that at the time this quote clearly only referred
to property owning white men who were only voting for property owning
white men some who owned slaves.
WHEREAS, “The principles of genuine Liberty and of wise laws and
administrations are to be drawn from the Bible” (Noah Webster); and
ACLU: The complete quote is “In selecting men for office, let
principle be your
guide. Regard not the particular sect or denomination of the candidate
- look to his character. . . . When a citizen gives his suffrage to a
man of known immorality he abuses his trust; he sacrifices not only his
own interest, but that of his neighbor, he betrays the interest of his
country.” *Webster was a devout Christian so it is not surprising
that his words would reflect this relationship with God. However,
Webster was not a framer of the constitution. He was asked by Hamilton to move to New York to edit a federalist newspaper.
WHEREAS, the people of Oklahoma have a strong tradition of reliance upon the Creator of the Universe; and
WHEREAS, we believe our economic woes are consequences of our greater national moral crisis; and
WHEREAS, this nation has become a world leader in promoting abortion,
pornography, same sex marriage, sex trafficking, divorce, illegitimate
births, child abuse, and many other forms of debauchery; and
WHEREAS, alarmed that the Government of the United States of America is
forsaking the rich Christian heritage upon which this nation was built;
and
WHEREAS, grieved that the Office of the president of these
United States has refused to uphold the long held tradition of past
presidents in giving recognition to our National Day of Prayer; and
WHEREAS, deeply disturbed that the Office of the president of these
United States disregards the biblical admonitions to live clean and
pure lives by proclaiming an entire month to an immoral behavior;
NOW THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that we the undersigned elected officials
of the people of Oklahoma, religious leaders and citizens of the State
of Oklahoma, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world, solemnly
declare that the HOPE of the great State of Oklahoma and of these
United States, rests upon the Principles of Religion and Morality as
put forth in the HOLY BIBLE; and
BE IT RESOLVED that we, the undersigned, believers in the One True God
and His only Son, call upon all to join with us in recognizing that
“Blessed is the Nation whose God is the Lord,” and humbly implore all
who love Truth and Virtue to live above reproach in the sight of God
and man with a firm reliance on the leadership and protection of
Almighty God; and
BE IT RESOLVED that we, the undersigned, humbly call upon Holy God, our
Creator, Sustainer, and Redeemer, to have mercy on this nation, to stay
His hand of judgment, and grant a national awakening of righteousness
and Christian renewal as we repent of our great sin.
Signed on the second day of July in the year of our Lord Christ Two Thousand and Nine.
Footnotes:
[1] “The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States” By John Adams, Charles Francis Adams
[2] http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/founding.htm
[3] http://www.monticello.org/reports/quotes/memorial.html
[4] http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/06/sally_kerns_fake_history.php#more
[5] History of the United States (New Haven: Durrie & Peck, 1832), pp. 336-337.
* Noah Webster, Letters to a Young Gentleman Commencing His Education
to which is subjoined a Brief History of the United States